As two of the suspects in London’s Saturday attacks are identified, U.S. law enforcers are working to assess any potential threat here. That includes an assessment of the UK attackers, and examining what’s needed to secure the United States. To explain the procedures in more detail, The Cipher Brief’s Elaine Shannon spoke to John Perren, the FBI’s Former Assistant Director, Weapons of Mass Destruction Directorate.
The Cipher Brief: What’s happening at the FBI and the other federal agencies to head off the kinds of attacks we’re seeing in the UK?
John Perren: Right now, FBI agents and analysts responsible for counterterrorism are working 24-7. The battle rhythm is very high. You’d almost think the attack happened in our country.
The FBI has set up Joint Terrorism Task Forces (JTTF) in its 106 field offices across the country, to share information and work cooperatively with state and local law enforcement agencies and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). The first thing that happens is, the FBI director – today, that would be acting director Andrew McCabe – and the DHS Secretary [John Kelly] hold a nationwide conference call, first internally with the FBI special-agents-in charge. Then they’ll invite all the JTTF partners – police chiefs, sheriffs — onto the call.
The Director and Secretary will talk about what the FBI and DHS see as the threat and how they see it evolving. The FBI officials in charge of counterterrorism will give them what we know about techniques, whether it was homegrown or foreign, a rundown of the facts. Then we’ll talk about what’s happening here in the U.S., what we should do and how we should do it. We ask our state and local partners, what are you doing? We hit them with all the intel we may have that could help them. We’ll talk about indicators, what to watch out for, the targets out there, events coming up. We call the private sector — heads of security, heads of companies – and we give them an intelligence briefing.
The CIA and military are not on the JTTFs, but they’re matching notes and sharing information with the Bureau. The whole Intelligence Community right now is exchanging information at a ferocious speed.
FBI counterterrorism will be talking to Scotland Yard and the British intelligence services MI5 and MI6.
TCB: British officials were furious that crime scene photographs from the Manchester attack leaked to the New York Times, while the police were actively searching for other possible members of the suicide bombers’ terror network. Has that leak disrupted the FBI’s ability to get needed intelligence from Scotland Yard?
JP: Not sharing? Baloney. Sharing is necessary. It’s the only way you’re going to be proactive.
FBI agents know it’s important that we don’t look like we’re leaking anything. The British police are sharing, but I would hope it would be with complete compartmentalization. You need time to develop leads into whatever that network was, to make sure you take them all out, to make sure you don't have another attack.
You’ll notice that the British police are not sharing information with the media as they did on the last attack [in Manchester.] On this one, the media had no information for a long time. The British police were not going to have the media determine the pace of the investigation. They set their own pace on how they were going to conduct this investigation, and they briefed the press when they were ready.
TCB: What’s different about the attacks in Manchester and London compared to past attacks?
JP: The key thing, it’s all soft targets. It doesn’t take a lot – three guys in a van with knives and fake suicide vests. From the time they started until they were neutralized, just eight minutes passed.
One of the victims was a transit officer. How come these guys aren’t armed? London is going to have to review its practices on arming first responders. In an active-shooter scenario, it’s all up to the first responders to stop that guy.
TCB: Why are these soft-target attacks happening now?
JP: ISIS [the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria] is losing its Caliphate. Last July, [former FBI Director James] Comey told Congress, “We all know there will be a terrorist diaspora out of the Caliphate, as they crush it. Those thousands of fighters are going to go someplace and our job is to stop them before they come to the U.S.”
ISIS was rocking and rolling in Iraq and Syria. If you believed its ideology, that was the place to go and fight, to get battle-tested. That was great for recruiting. As we started eating away at their Caliphate, as we’ve started kicking ass over there, we knew we’d see more attacks in Europe and the U.S. ISIS leaders have been telling their people through social media, through their underground, through their websites, “Stay where you are, use a truck, a knife, a rock, burn them out. Go after the infidels.” Somebody, a copycat who’s buying into their ideology, just has to be heard saying “Allah Akbar “and pledging his allegiance to ISIS.
TCB: The FBI believes that as ISIS loses its strongholds in Iraq and Syria, the group and its sympathizers will try to regain prestige and recruits by staging crude attacks in the U.S. and Europe? Then do you expect more attacks on upcoming events?
JP: Yes, it’s gotten scarier. Look at how much media time they've gotten. The bad guys are loving this. It’s exactly what they want. This attack was a great success – around-the-clock media coverage. What a great recruiting tool this was. I know that the security is going to be really tight.
TCB: Does the firing of Director James Comey undermine the FBI’s ability to prevent attacks like those in Britain?
JP: The worker bees are still there – the analysts and agents – with oversight from operational officials. The director will get briefed up, and then he talks to the president and to his partners at the principals group at the National Security Council. But at the Bureau, the Executive Assistant Director [Carl Ghattas] in charge of the National Security Branch and the assistant directors are running the operations.
TCB: How does the FBI deal with thousands of potential lone-wolf and copycat threats?
JP: To me it's a resource question. How long can you go 24-7? You’ve got to rack and stack and figure out what are your priorities. Who do we think are the ones we should look at the hardest? Resources will only last so long.
But it’s not just the Bureau. We work with cops and deputies all over the country. It’s all about forming relationships and building trust. I told my agents, when you get that call at 2 o’clock in the morning from a state trooper, you don’t say, I’ll talk to you in the morning. You get somebody out there right away. If he felt it important to call the FBI, it’s important enough to go out there. You’re there with them the whole time and do anything to aid them, with anything we have. You get back to him and thank him, even if it turns out to be nothing. We’re not there just for the big day. We’re there 24-7 to help our partners any way we can, not just when the big incident happens.
The old Bureau stereotype was, “We got it now, thanks, guys.” Not anymore. Today, you get past all that. Nothing else works if you don’t have collaboration.
