Skip to content
Search

Latest Stories

Welcome! Log in to stay connected and make the most of your experience.

Input clean

How the Danes See NATO, Trump and Ukraine

OPINION — “The most important part right now is that Europe would be able to buy military equipment here in the U.S. so we can donate these military systems directly to Ukraine. That is also discussion going on right now. I think [President] Trump is on the right path here. I think he has promised that would be a possibility. We are talking in these hours about 10 Patriot [missile defense] systems and I think the outcome of that discussion will be that European countries will be able to buy the Patriot systems and then donate them directly to Ukraine and that's important because the discussions two months ago were, in fact, that there were no more to buy here in the U.S. So the outcome of the discussion right now is moving in a better direction.”

That was Denmark’s Defense Minister Troels Lund Poulsen, speaking one week ago at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), where he appeared along with Lars Løkke Rasmussen, Denmark’s Minister of Foreign Affairs. They discussed not just Ukraine and NATO, but also their relations with the U.S., Greenland, the critical minerals issue and Denmark’s goals in taking over the Presidency of the European Union (EU) for the next six months.


The two had been in Washington for several days of meeting with senior Trump officials, and Members of Congress, in part because Denmark has assumed the Presidency of the European Union and plans to make military preparedness a hallmark of the country’s six month leadership term.

Last Tuesday, Poulsen explained the reasoning for European nations to buy weapons from the U.S. for Ukraine, which Trump and NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte announced at the White House yesterday. He and Rasmussen also explained the background of the European nations’ decision-making as well as their views of activities here in Washington and the rest of the world.

Foreign Minister Rasmussen gave his own assessment of the situation in Moscow, saying, “You shouldn't overestimate the power of Russia. I mean we have weakened the [Russian] economy. They are now on a war footing so to speak. They spend more on military than in health and education and everything civilized combined. They have huge casualties, high inflation. I mean if it was a more open transparent society with some kind of internal discussions, things would have been very, very, different. If you compare the casualties with what they lost in Afghanistan and decided to withdraw, it's much worse.”

A former two-time Danish Prime Minister, Rasmussen continued, “But of course it's a closed society and it is a one-man-takes-all-decisions-kind-of-society. It's not a democracy, but it is within our hands, so to speak, to actually crash Putin and his war machine.”

Rasmussen then added, “The big question is whether we [Denmark and the other NATO and EU countries] have, you know, the readiness, the willingness to do so, and here of course we need the U.S. I mean it goes without saying that Europe has to pay a bigger part of the bill. We do. We [Europe] now account for like 70% of the total support to Ukraine. That number will go up, but we need the U.S. on board as well, not least when we are talking sanctions and pressure on Putin.”

As Rasmussen pointed out, tiny Denmark supplies quite a bit by itself. “We are the fourth biggest contributor to Ukraine,” he said, “so it's like U.S., U.K. [United Kingdom], Germany, and then Denmark. Per capita, we are so far the biggest. We spend like plus 1,500 Euros [$1,754] per capita in Denmark. It's more than the double compared to the second biggest spender in Europe.”

The Cipher Brief brings expert-level context to national and global security stories. It’s never been more important to understand what’s happening in the world. Upgrade your access to exclusive content by becoming a subscriber.

As for U.S. arms, “We need more speed in our procurements from the U.S.,” Poulsen said. “It is too long to get the needed capabilities and right now we are indeed in need for these capabilities. So that's my main objective to be here [in Washington].”

Poulsen added, “Trump is quite much aware of that. And also [Defense Secretary] Pete Hegseth and [Secretary of State] Mario Rubio [both of whom they had met with]. They are aware that they have to speed up all these processes — too much red tape in delivering to Europe. And when we are coming to U.S. saying we would like to buy even more military equipment, then I don't think the answer should be you have to wait seven or eight years to get it.”

Poulsen also said, “Europe will do more and I think the outcome of the situation in Ukraine is also the demanding question for Europe to be able to invest more and also build up more [military] capacity,” which he described as among the “lessons learned from Ukraine.”

At one point Rasmussen said he had met briefly with Trump during the June NATO meeting at The Hague. “I told him when we met last time when I was prime minister, we only spent like 1.5 percent [of the nation’s GDP] in Denmark [for our defense spending]…Then the whole thing happened in Ukraine. Now there's totally new sense of urgency. This year Denmark spends 3.2 percent, exactly the same as U.S. It is a clear commitment from our government that we will meet the 3.5 percent [NATO goal by 2035].”

Ukraine has shown itself to be very strong in creating new and innovative defense companies, they both said, but investment in arms manufacturing outside Ukraine is what they talked about. Rasmussen said, “Basically it's about buying from Ukraine to Ukraine.”

He described that when the war started Ukraine had a weapons industry of some $3 billion, but it is now up to $40 billion, although Ukrainians “only have finance for half of it.”

Rasmussen said an answer has been that “we [the Danes] have spent our own money and we also have the honor to be the facilitator of some of these [Russian] frozen assets or the interest linked to the frozen asset. So that is the basis of the Danish model and now we are working on making, you know, real investments…with our Ukrainian friends to set up Ukrainian investments in Denmark to give them some kind of safe haven.”

Other European countries have followed, and together with the Ukrainians they are producing arms not just for Ukraine, but for their own militaries. “We should be inspired of what the Ukrainians lesson learned from their battlefield,” Rasmussen said, “and that's why it makes sense also to invest not only to assist them [Ukrainians], but also to make some kind of technology transferring from Ukraine to our own military.”

Everyone needs a good nightcap. Ours happens to come in the form of a M-F newsletter that keeps you up to speed on national security. Sign up today.

Poulsen said the first pilot project was last July, when Denmark paid for 18 Bohdana self-propelled 155 mm howitzers that Ukraine had created on its own. “They were produced in two months,” Poulsen said. “Should we have been able to buy them in Europe, it will have taken two years. So in two months they were able to produce the Bohdana systems. It was very cheap and the spare parts, the maintenance, all that kind of thing are, of course, being done directly near the front line. So it has been a huge success and right now we're looking into also developing new capabilities or finance new capabilities for the defense companies in Ukraine. That would be missiles, that would be drones. It's under Ukrainian defense demands that they ask for this and we reimburse [pay for] the contracts.”

With some $20 billion from Europeans and others available, Poulsen explained, “the best way we can do for our friends in Ukraine to keep up fighting is in fact to give money directly into the [Ukraine] defense companies.”

Poulsen called it Danish model 2.0. and said, “That's to invite some of the [Ukraine] defense companies to have a safe haven in Denmark to produce what they will need in Ukraine, hopefully all also in Germany and other European countries.”

Poulsen also described a new approach involving Denmark, Germany and Nordic countries — jointly buying weapons systems.

As an example, Poulsen said that Denmark, Norway and Sweden are looking into buying the P-8A Poseidon U.S. Navy multi-mission maritime patrol and reconnaissance aircraft. He said it was a capability they already have in Norway and Germany, but “not buying it ourselves [individually]…we'll also have some capabilities that we could use together with Sweden and Norway…So that will be the way forward.”

As for Greenland, Rasmussen said he did not really discuss the matter in any depth when he met with Rubio because “we [the Danes] have the slogan ‘nothing about Greenland without Greenland [being present].’ Even though the foreign security policy [of Greenland] is, you know, the Danish government's responsibility, we have developed a good tradition or custom that if we are, you know, really negotiating with the third countries about these issues we will have our Greenlandic colleague [with us].”

Greenland, he said, was discussed “in a more generally way.”

Rasmussen said the Danes were “taken by surprise” by Trump’s announcement that for both U.S. national security and international security it was necessary that Washington annex Greenland.

Rasmussen, who was Danish Prime Minister from 2016-to-2019 during Trump’s first term, said, “I have experienced with Trump so many times that whatever he says…and whatever he proposes there's always some kind of rational substance behind it. I mean, and we share the view, that we have to be present in the Arctic in a different way. But it shouldn't be in a fight between the kingdom of Denmark and U.S. It should be by combining forces and we have the framework for that.”

He explained that the Danes “have been pushing for including [the] Arctic in the capability targets in NATO. And, to some extent, we were successful. There's now a kind of principal agreement among the NATO Arctic countries, including U.S., that this is something we should do under the framework of the NATO.”

Rasmussen added, “So it's not that the Greenlandic issue is solved. I think because apart from these rational arguments, I can't get rid of the idea that there's also just this [Trump] vision of creating a bigger U.S. and we can, of course, not accommodate that.”

Rasmussen added, “I must say I leave Washington a bit more optimistic compared to when I arrived. I think the statement made by the president [Trump] after his [most recent] telephone conversations with [Russian President] Putin and [Ukraine President] Zelensky prove that he now to a larger extent share our analysis of the situation. I mean it was a bit confusing earlier this year when he had Zelensky in the Oval Office who is the bad guy, who is the good guy. That has shifted. I think the [Hague] NATO summit was also important. I mean I really feel and think he [Trump] has perhaps the most positive view on Europe he has had for a while, at least.”

All that has turned out to have been realistic. Let’s hope Trump stays on his current trajectory.

Opinions expressed are those of the author and do not represent the views or opinions of The Cipher Brief.

The Cipher Brief is committed to publishing a range of perspectives on national security issues submitted by deeply experienced national security professionals.

Have a perspective to share based on your experience in the national security field? Send it to Editor@thecipherbrief.com for publication consideration.

Read more expert-driven national security insights, perspective and analysis in The Cipher Brief

Related Articles

How the Danes See NATO, Trump and Ukraine

OPINION — “The most important part right now is that Europe would be able to buy military equipment here in the U.S. so we can donate these military [...] More

U.S. Cyber Defense Starts with Defining Standards and Driving Collaboration

OPINION — President Donald J. Trump has returned to office with the renewed revelations that Chinese government-affiliated hackers continue to [...] More

Expert Q&A: What to Watch for at the Trump-Netanyahu Meeting

EXPERT Q&A — Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu arrived in Washington D.C. on Monday to meet with President Donald Trump at the White House — [...] More

To Counter China, Reform U.S. Intelligence for the Digital Age

EXPERT PERSPECTIVE / OPINION -- The United States is facing a quiet and rapidly growing threat across the digital landscape, an unseen mathematical [...] More

The Peacewalkers: How the West Went to War in 2022

“The protagonists of 1914 were sleepwalkers, watchful but unseeing, haunted by dreams, yet blind to the reality of the horror they were about to [...] More

Iran is a Terrorist State

OPINION — Since 1984, Iran has been designated a state sponsor of terrorism. The designation is justified, given Iran’s continued support of proxies [...] More